Adam’s Corner
47 Comments to “Adam’s Corner”
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Please see this page if interested in reading “A Partial-Preterist Perspective on the Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.” It’s a 48-page term paper carved up into much smaller sections for greater readability. It’s recommended that each section be read in the order in which it was posted:
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I love this article from a Christian satire site called “Sacred Sandwich.” The title of the article is “If Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians Was Published in Christianity Today.” In a satirical way, it drives home the point that Paul’s straightforward approach to truth would not be welcome (and in fact is not welcome) in many sectors of the mainstream Church in America today:
http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/2781
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I would like to point to a few resources for anyone who is questioning the Biblical nature of tithing as it is popularly taught in many American churches today. In and of itself, this is not a central issue in the Bible, being merely one of hundreds of commands in the Mosaic Law and not even one of the weightier ones (Matthew 23:23). However, the practice of tithing has become absolutely central in many Christian circles, and this was certainly true in my own upbringing.
It’s not unheard of, and this was my experience as well, for a curse to be pronounced upon those who fail to tithe as they are taught. Ironically, the way they are taught to tithe is a far cry from how tithing was practiced under Mosaic Law, but this is almost never explained. The very passage used to justify this curse (Malachi 3:8-9) was clearly written only to those who were under Mosaic Law (and no true believer is under the Law today).
In 2006 I wrote a term paper on this subject, and perhaps at some point I will post that paper on this site as well. For now, though, here are a couple of excellent resources on this subject:
[1] http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/
[2] http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/
[3] http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/the-tithe-test/
[4] http://churchtithesandofferings.com/topargumentsfortithing.html-
Disclaimer: Russell Kelly’s stated conviction (see his site above) is the same as my own, so I will post it here:
“New Covenant giving is: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, regular and motivated by love for God, fellow Christians and lost souls. Do not burden or curse God’s poor who struggle to feed and shelter their family. Although there is no set percentage for Christians to give, all should give sacrificially or lower your standards of living in order to further the reach of the Gospel.”
See especially II Corinthians 9, the entire chapter, but particularly verses 7-8.
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This video features the apostasy of “Christians United for Israel,” whose Executive Director (David Brog) isn’t even a Christian. There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:28). There is one people of God, the body of Christ (I Peter 2:4-10, Ephesians 2:11-22), and ethnic Jews are not part of God’s chosen people except for the remnant who has placed their trust in Christ (Romans 9:6-8; Revelation 2:9, 3:9). Salvation is found only through Jesus Christ, and the Old Covenant is NOT sufficient for salvation, as John Hagee says. “Christian” Zionism is political, but it’s not Biblical. I hope to explore this entire subject in much more detail at a later time, but for now here is this video:
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Here is another video featuring this unbiblical rubbish:
Hagee would have us believe that “Israel is the focus of the Bible, beginning from Genesis running through the entirety of Scripture” (3:45 mark). No wonder many of his mesmerized and moonstruck followers seem to worship the nation of Israel more than Jesus.
It’s telling that many Palestinian Christians are dumbfounded by the school of thought known as Zionism which often regards the Palestinian people as illegitimate and is quick to react in anger whenever someone expresses an ounce of compassion for them. If the statistics are true, it’s a travesty that a deceiver like Hagee has a TV audience of 99 million.
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I fully endorse the statement contained in this open letter to the body of Christ regarding the people of God, the land of Israel, and the impartiality of the gospel:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/openletter.html
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This is an excellent video, and the scenario shown here is not far-fetched at all:
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HAHAHAHAHAHA Precious!
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Hey Apostle Prophet Bishop Nick!
Thanks for stopping by. This is a great video, isn’t it? You know whoever put it together has some stories to tell!
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Here’s an excellent video, featuring voices of truth such as Leonard Ravenhill, Paul Washer, and Carter Conlon:
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In this video Pastor John Piper of Bethlehem Baptist Church (Minneapolis) tells the truth about the false teaching known as the prosperity gospel (a.k.a. “health and wealth” gospel):
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This NY Times article illustrates why John Piper is absolutely correct in expressing hatred for the so-called prosperity gospel. I hate it too. These shameless wolves, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland and the rest of their cronies, are dragging the name of Jesus through the mud in front of a watching world. The NY Times has the discernment to expose this crap for what it is, but too much of the body of Christ in the US continues to put up with this deceitful garbage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/16gospel.html
These folks (Copeland, et al) own ridiculously luxurious mansions, private planes, gold-plated toilets, etc. and their gullible, often struggling followers are still throwing money at them! According to the article, one couple sitting up in the nosebleed section making PB & J sandwiches claimed that the Copelands rescued them from financial failure 23 years ago, and that they “would have failed if Copeland hadn’t been praying for [them] everyday” (a claim that is HIGHLY suspect, of course). Yet this same couple is now $102,000 in debt and without credit. The wife claims the Holy Spirit told her that she was “born to support” Copeland, and she recently gave $1800 for one Copeland ministry project and $2000 before that toward his luxury airplane. Wow, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction!
After 23 years of being duped by this false gospel that teaches people to fall in love with this present world and lay up treasure on earth instead of in heaven, this couple paid to attend yet another conference hoping that this would be “the overcoming year.” This is good old-fashioned sheep fleecing, and this stuff makes me want to lose my lunch. It sure does wonders for the honor of the Lord Jesus Christ, doesn’t it? “Spiritual pickpockets” is how Professor Walton refers to them. He got that right!
“…for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs” (The Apostle Paul: I Timothy 6:7-10, ESV).
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Here is just about the worst video footage I’ve ever seen illustrating the prosperity gospel pimps at work (hopefully it won’t get any worse than this). In this video Leroy “Money Cometh” Thompson and Creflo “$$$” Dollar run and stomp all over money that is being thrown onto the stage by their gullible followers, and Leroy claims that he is putting “his anointing” into the money. This is a shameless carnal circus that has nothing at all to do with what it means to follow the Lord Jesus Christ:
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wow, I just got shocked. I mean I knew but seeing it in this form … wow
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Hi Nobody,
Thanks for stopping by. I didn’t mean to take so long to acknowledge your comment. Yes, it is shocking. It’s a heavy thought to consider that the people in the audience apparently weren’t shocked. Many clearly appreciated this over-the-top display. It’s disgusting, and highly dishonoring to Christ. I can’t wait for God to purge this false gospel from America.
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This is a beautiful song expressing the truth of the gospel and our hope in Christ. This video includes the lyrics to the song “In Christ Alone” and scenes from the Passion of the Christ:
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You can disregard the photo if you’d like (although it’s fitting), but this is a good song from Christian rapper John Reuben challenging the ethnocentrism, love of comfort and excess, sense of personal entitlement, and the self-esteem gospel pervading American Christianity. “What About Them?” asks us if we have forgotten about the poor, the needy, the outcasts, and the rejected:
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This is a brief, heartfelt message from Voddie Baucham on the question, “If God is good, why does He allow bad things to happen?” His response is not the typical one, and emphasizes the sovereignty of God rather than the sovereignty of man:
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This is another satire piece from the site “Sacred Sandwich.” It’s called, “Denomination Votes to Allow Drunken Clergy.” Using humor, this article points out the absurdity of disregarding and attempting to reinvent the Word of God for our own purposes:
http://sacredsandwich.com/archives/5575
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These two articles reflect where I’m at when it comes to politics. I believe they hit the nail on the head in showing that political causes have become a huge distraction to the body of Christ in America. In some Christian circles, the gospel of Jesus Christ has been eclipsed (if not replaced) by political fanaticism:
[1] http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/is-obama-really-the-problem/
[2] http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2009/09/05/confession-of-a-radical/We need to be about the business of spreading the gospel, not promoting American superiority, championing democracy/freedom, or aspiring toward a theocracy. If we do, this might just result:
http://vodpod.com/watch/809090-revival-in-china?pod=appolus
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I found the following article on the parallels between Ezekiel and Revelation to be quite interesting. Now granted, I am a little biased (as I wrote it ;- ), but still I think it is worth a look. http://planetpreterist.com/content/revelations-extensive-use-sequence-ezekiel-part-one
Duncan
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Hi Duncan,
Thank you so much for pointing me (and others who will come here) to this link. What an excellent resource! I’m very much interested in the parallels between Ezekiel and Revelation. I’ve taken a quick look at your article, and will plan to examine it in more depth shortly…in the preterist sense of the word “shortly,” not the futurist sense
I’ll also look forward to seeing Part 2 when it’s posted.
You may have noticed that I have referenced a few of your very valuable writings in three different posts, I believe:
[1] http://kloposmasm.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/revelation-chapter-17-part-1-verses-1-6/ (the contrasting picture of two women)
[2] http://kloposmasm.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/revelation-18/ (“The Merchandise of the Temple”)
[3] http://kloposmasm.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/revelation-20-minority-views-on-the-millennium-part-1/ (the 70 AD-beginning of the Millennium)I’ve also recently ordered and received your 2009 book, “The Antichrist and the Second Coming: A Preterist Examination,” and am looking forward to getting into it as soon as time allows (I’m a full-time student and also working part-time). God bless you, and thanks for stopping by. Any further feedback is welcome.
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Thanks Adam,
I just posted part II here http://planetpreterist.com/content/revelations-parallel-use-sequence-ezekiel-part-two-duncan-mckenzie
In terms of my book, if you are short on time just read my chapter on Daniel 7. I see Dan. 7 as maybe the single most important chapter on prophecy. Both important in terms of the identity of the Antichrist and for the timing of the millennium (and the judgment). By the way for anyone else who does not have my book but is interested, you can read my chapter on Dan. 7 in a Google book preview (go to page 99 and be sure to hit the full screen button so it is easier to read:-) see here http://books.google.com/books?id=ZL89vmcBUJwC&dq=the+antichrist+and+the+second+coming&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=69VQxzDFpL&sig=vKl4GVeC0mUt8M3UaQK2l2GyxYg&hl=en&ei=Jum0Sv2kEIWesgOytsTQDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=&f=false
God Bless,
Duncan
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Duncan,
Thanks. I will definitely plan to carefully read both Part 1 and Part 2 of the posts noting the parallels between Ezekiel and Revelation. I’ll also plan to make it a point to read chapter 7 of your book sooner than later. Thanks for the link to the Google Book preview. That’s kind of you to make that available online.
God bless you as well,
Adam
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Hi Adam
I hope that you are enjoying your vacation,just wanted to say i like Adam’s corner.The video ” Derek meets a false Apostle” was priceless!
I used the link above to read chapter 4 (Daniel 7) of Duncan McKenzie’s book “The Antichrist and the Second Coming: A Preterist Examination,”
I have been reading James Stuart Russel’s book the Parousia.Here’s a pdf,and another link to it just in case you have not read it.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1878_russell_parousia_1st-ed.pdf
Once you click on the link (below) just scroll down to Part 1,the Parousia in the Gospels,each chapter has its own link.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1878_russell_parousia.html
Seroled
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Hi Seroled,
Thanks. Yes, I really like that video as well. Thanks for the links. No, I haven’t yet read all of Russell’s book, but it’s something I’d like to do.
It hasn’t been much of a vacation, at least not in terms of getting rest, but it’s been enjoyable. I’ve been going just about non-stop since I arrived in Ohio, with five days devoted to a summer camp and the rest of my time with friends and family. Tomorrow I’ll take most of the day to drive back to Minneapolis, and it’s back to work on Tuesday. I hope you’re doing well too.
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Hello Adam,
Happy New Year!
When you have the time would you read this article and give your opinion of it?
http://www.life.org/Feasts.html
Also Matthew 24:36 is it possible that Jesus spoke these words – in that there must come two witnesses ” first ” to testify in the Temple that they have seen the New Moon – in order to signify the time for the Feast of Trumpets?
Thanks Adam
Seroled
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Hi Seroled,
Happy New Year to you too!
I took a look at the article. I’ve generally really enjoyed David Curtis’s writings. In this article, I liked his comparison of the two 40 year periods, after the establishment of both the Old Covenant at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant at the cross. He had a number of very interesting things to say about that. I differ with him, though, on the ceasing of all spiritual gifts in 70 AD. He really didn’t develop his argument on that in this article either. Perhaps he has elsewhere.
Regarding the feasts, I found this to be very good food for thought: “The first four feasts were fulfilled on the exact day of the shadows. So, I would assume that the last three would be also. Because the Cannon was closed before the completion of the last three feasts, we have no record of their fulfillment. What we know for sure was that they were to be fulfilled with the forty year period, which began at Pentecost.”
For the Feast of Trumpets, it was helpful to learn of the people’s need to remain alert and watchful for when that day would come. That has definite parallels to what Jesus said in Matthew 24. This quote was also intriguing:
“The Feast of Trumpets is Israel’s dark day. It occurred at the new moon when the primary night light of the heavens is darkened. Israel’s prophets repeatedly warned of a coming day of judgment for the nation. It was called “the day of the Lord.” It was to occur at the end of the Jewish age. The day of the Lord was a time when the Lord poured out His wrath upon Israel… We mentioned earlier that the Feast of Trumpets is the only feast day to begin when the moon is dark. This passage from Zephaniah [1:14-16] is only one of many that speaks of the day of the Lord as a day of darkness, and a day when the shofar sounds.”
I think I’m on board with David’s analysis of Hebrews 9, the Day of Atonement, and the events of 70 AD, but I need to give it more thought.
So, coming to your question about Matthew 24:36, I guess I don’t know if Jesus’ words there have anything to do with the description David Curtis gave of two witnesses being needed to sight the new moon. Perhaps, but where did David get that description from? He didn’t point to any Scriptures that tell of this, unless I missed it. What do you think about that? Also are you making a connection to the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation 11? I don’t know that you and I have ever discussed that subject. It’s an interesting one for sure.
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Hi Adam,
Thank you for taking the time.You are correct, David did not make the connection at all with the two witnesses of Revelation in the article (that was my doing) Again you are correct that he does not give scriptural references that “back in the day” there must be 2 that witnessed the New Moon before the Feast could be proclaimed.
I cannot say where he may gotten the information – but here is a link to a site that i found last weekend. It is Hebrew-roots,traditions and idioms oriented. I do not care for the Hebrew roots movement AT ALL, however,i found it interesting especially concerning the two witnesses of the New Moon,coming to the TEMPLE and before the SANHEDRIN to testify.
So yes, it absolutely did cross/lingered in my mind that there may have been a connection with the two witnesses of Revelation.Anyway another very trusted blogger who is Historic Pre-mill, pointed out to me (Paraphrased) that he does not follow the traditions and that a known Day (the feast of trumpets) contrasted with what Jesus said about ” No man knowing the day or hour” does not really add up. Nor did he find scriptural support for the two witnesses. Furthermore he said that we have Calendars today wherein we would KNOW the day of the New Moon/Feast of Trumpets…
So i think that i was on the wrong path with this. UNLESS i was one willing to believe that Matthew 24:36 is also referring to Jesus’ spiritual coming in AD70 and not a physical future coming. BUT YOU KNOW i’ll leave that alone.
Anyway,check out the link…
http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9807/980715_c.html
Thanks as always Adam…
Seroled
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Seroled,
I don’t care for the Hebrew Roots movement at all either. That information about the two witnesses needed for the sighting of the moon was interesting, though. Yes, we can leave the subject of a physical coming versus a spiritual coming alone, at least for now.
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Hi Adam
Yep, we’ll leave it alone for now
This is part of an article that i found on the Messianic Good News site… The full article can be found on the left side bar – under Jesus in the feast or the feasts of Israel (sorry no link). The article is titled – May your name be inscribed in the book of life. Again it is Jewish tradition,however,it is the traditions of those who yet keep the law of Moses. I found it interesting what they believe happens between the ten days of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. You’ll see what i mean…
According to Jewish tradition, on the Day of Atonement, Satan, the accuser of the people, is bound in chains and the people of Israel who deny themselves on that day are clothed in white. The Law stipulates that anyone who does not deny himself must be cut off from his people (Lev. 23:29). The act of denying themselves was a demonstration of their faith in the atoning sacrifice. In like manner we are called to demonstrate our faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus by denying ourselves, taking up our cross and following him: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me” (Matthew 16:24). This is the measure of genuine faith. Those who want to partake of his righteousness and participate in his resurrection must also participate in his suffering.
Paul, once a zealous Pharisee, was confronted with this test of true faith: But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ–the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead (Philippians 3:7-11).
The ten days between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, although a short period of time,are regarded as solemn days of testing. Jesus encouraged the persecuted church in Smyrna to remain faithful even to the point of death, using the symbolic period of ten days to illustrate that whatever trials we have to endure in this life cannot be compared to the glory that will be revealed for eternity (cf. Romans 8:18-19): “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death” (Revelation 2:8-11).
“…you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches” (Revelation 3:4-6).
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Seroled,
Yeah, that is interesting regarding the ten days. Have you ever heard any other good explanation for why “ten days” are specifically mentioned for the church in Smyrna? Could Jesus have meant this to be a reference to the 10 days between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur? Perhaps… Do you think that’s a valid possibility?
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Morning Adam,
This is the only inference/explanation that i have heard so far for the ten days spoken of in Revelation 2:8-10. Why the church of Smyrna I’m not sure. Perhaps there were unconverted false professors of the faith in that church – troubling the true believers in Christ?
Adam, if David Curtis is correct in his article, that Jesus has fulfilled the last three Feast of Israel on their EXACT day, then i do think that is a valid explanation for the ten days of tribulation compared to the ten days of trial between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur Moreover, the fact that the Jews believe that on the Day of Atonement Satan is chained (Rev 20:1,2)
Something else i noticed in David Curtis’ article – he seems to infer by his article, that he believes that the THOUSAND YEARS began in AD70 after the 40 year transition period between the two Covenants.
Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets. – Amos 3:7 (NIV)
No One Knows About the Day or Hour… If this is truly a Hebraism for the Feast of Trumpets – then Jesus surely told his Apostles when he would come.
Google it,Adam. There are more than a few sites that state that the words spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:36a is a Hebraism for the Feast of trumpets…
Seroled
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Seroled,
Yeah, I can see the “ten days” explanation being valid as well. If David Curtis believes that the 1000 years began in 70 AD, I didn’t realize that. I thought I had heard that he is a full preterist, but if this is the case then he is not. His belief on this matter, then, would be the same as that of J. Stuart Russell and Duncan McKenzie, who we’ve both interacted with here. I agree with this position as well. It’s laid out in this post (Part A):
http://kloposmasm.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/revelation-20-minority-views-on-the-millennium-part-1/
I’m not in a place right now where I can view the video below, but I’ll plan to watch it later when I can.
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Hi Adam,
I remember the post and thought you did an excellent job putting it together!
Are you aware of any group of Christians that believe that there will come a time BEFORE the THOUSAND YEARS are finished and Satan is loosed, that there will be a great awakening in the State of Israel? Not a greater than Pentecost or any type of dual fulfillment of things past – but a revival of sorts, the kind that could take place any where in the world.
It is certainly possible that many coming to the faith in the State of Israel, perhaps even building a structure, a church – could bring about the battle/war spoken of in Rev 20:8. Many believe that Israel will come to faith AFTER the Gog and Magog battle. Perhaps faith comes before the battle/war.
I do not speak of them coming to faith in terms of God removing their blindness (i do not believe that they are blinded and hardened today, more so than any other people) Nor do i believe (anymore) that Israelis/Jews coming to the faith in massive numbers is looked upon by God any differently than massive numbers of any other people coming to the faith.
However,what do you think that the perception of the world would be – if such a thing as this were to take place in that tiny little State? Surely all eyes would be on her. The world along with many Christians who hold certain end time views, may believe that this is the ‘ sign ‘ that Christ is about to return.
Unbelievers worldwide could be deceived into believing that these are the people that will usher in his return. We know that the world is opposed to Christ and has no desire to have him come again and reign over them from Jerusalem of all places. What would it (the world) do to prevent the second coming of Christ, i wonder Would they be gathered together against it?
btw : i did not say that a second bodily coming of Christ is clearly laid out in scripture – but no one really knows why fire comes down from God? (Rev 20:9)
Seroled
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Hi Seroled,
Thank you for your kind words about that post.
To answer your question, post-millennialists come to mind, but I don’t think there is any kind of a consensus among them about this. I also don’t know if they would place such an awakening before or after “the battle/war.” I imagine that a lot of post-millennialists believe in a great global awakening across the board, and not necessarily one that takes place primarily in Israel more so than anywhere else. From the way you asked the question, such a group would need to be amillennial or post-millennial in their beliefs, or at least believing that we are in the 1000 years right now. Right? I know that there are plenty who believe in such an awakening for national Israel in our future, but probably a majority of them are premillennialists, who believe that the 1000 years have not yet begun.
Interesting thoughts and questions in the second part of your comment… It sure doesn’t take much for “Christians who hold certain end time views” to see all kinds of different events as signs that Christ is about to return, especially things that take place in Israel.
Regarding the fire that comes down from God (Rev. 20:9), I know that full preterists equate this with II Thess. 1:7-8 (“…when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ”), which they believe took place in 70 AD. However, for those like Duncan and J. Stuart Russell, who believe that the 1000 years began in 70 AD and that Rev. 20:7-10 is not yet fulfilled, I’m not sure how they (actually, we) interpret the image of fire coming down from heaven in Rev. 20:9. God’s intervention? What would that look like? Would there then be a transition to the eternal state for believers who are alive at that time? I mention Duncan and J. Russell Stuart because they have both explicitly affirmed a belief that there is no future return of Christ.
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Adam,
Here’s a video link. I hope that it comes through
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DPxvPlk3tKPM
Seroled
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Morning Adam,
Perhaps the misunderstanding of what he believes about the Thousand Years is mine? I read ” into ” the quote below from his article that he seems to believe that the Thousand Years began at AD70. He states that no one went to Heaven prior to Jesus’ second coming in 70AD. So my thinking is, how then could he believe that the Saints ‘ Lived and Reigned ‘ with Christ at AD30 – if they were not resurrected from the dead or in Heaven until 70AD.
Maybe David Curtis’ view is like that of JSR and Duncan,or the Full Preterist view of the Millennium beginning at AD30 and ending at AD70,is not group think?
Here’s the quote
The words, “while the outer tabernacle is still standing,” might better be translated, “while the first tabernacle still has any standing”while the Old Covenant was still in force. As long as the Old Covenant was still in effect, men did not have access to the presence of God. Prior to Jesus’ second coming, at which he destroyed the temple and the Old Covenant, no one went to Heaven. Prior to Jesus’ second coming in A.D. 70, all who died went to a holding place of the dead and waited for the atoning work of Christ and the resurrection from the dead. Until Christ’s second coming, man could not go into God’s presence.
Have a great weekend Adam!
Seroled
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Seroled,
Thanks for the quote from David Curtis. I can’t really tell from what he said there what he believes about the 1000 years. That’s OK, though.
You have a great weekend too!
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David Curtis is still a full preterist (so he can not believe the millennium began at AD 70). The idea that no one was in heaven before AD 70 is wrong. Look at Rev. 6:9-11. The souls of the martyrs are in heaven waiting for their resurrection bodies. They had a little while to wait. These are the souls who come alive at AD 70 for the millennium.
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Morning Adam
Rev 20:9 does lean towards God’s intervention.
What of Acts 1:11 concerning the coming again of Jesus. He ascended (UP) bodily in a literal cloud. Why view his spiritual coming with clouds in AD70 as his coming again ‘ in like manner ‘ . Why not expect a bodily ascension (DOWN) in a literal cloud back to Earth. Why settle for such opposites as physical and spiritual comings AND literal and figurative clouds…
These are not really a questions Adam, I’m just wondering here
Thank you always Adam
Seroled
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That should have been a bodily descent (DOWN) not ascension.
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Hi Adam
If i may ask – are you reformed and or a Calvinist?
If yes, does either or both have an effect on your Preterist view? I mean, since Jesus has already come in the first century and has appeared to those who looked for him (Hebrews 9:28 – Mark 9:1). He has gathered and redeemed his elect ( Matthew 24:31- Luke 21:28) then ALL of us must be living in the age without end ( Ephesians 3:21)
If Paul was not speaking of the eternal state in Ephesians 3:21 – then the age without end means that there is no end of procreation/human history. How then does the future casting of Satan into the lake of fire bring an end to sin and evil on the Earth, if hereditary/original sin is truth? IF you are NOT reformed or a Calvinist – I hope that you do not mind the questions anyway
Seroled
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Hi Seroled,
No, I’m not a Calvinist. One of my friends says I’m “close” to being one, but I know I’m not on board with the idea of “limited atonement,” probably among certain other ideas. I don’t necessarily take an opposite stance to Calvinism either, though. I see a tension in some of these things. I’m not sure how to define “reformed,” so I’m not sure whether that fits me or not.
Yes, I believe we’re living in the age without end, i.e. that the Bible doesn’t speak of any end coming to the New Covenant age (nor does it use this phrase, though). I don’t believe Ephesians 3:21 is speaking of the eternal state. It seems to clearly speak of Christ’s Church on the earth from the time this verse was written, now, and for all future generations. I’m not sure how to answer your question regarding original sin, except to say that I don’t know of any Scriptures tying the casting of Satan into the lake of fire to the end of sin and evil in the earth. Are you aware of any? How would you answer your own question?
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Hey Adam
I’m just trying to figure some things out
Mainly if election ceased with the coming of Jesus and his gathering of God’s chosen or First Fruits. Seroled
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Oh, OK.
I have to admit that the subject of election is one I don’t feel I’m ready to speak about with a whole lot of confidence. The use of that word, “election,” within Calvinist circles sometimes goes over my head. Nor do I particularly agree with how it’s applied at times.
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