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	<title>Comments for Pursuing Truth (Twin Cities)</title>
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	<description>Study group discussion forum and more</description>
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		<title>Comment on J. Stuart Russell on the Single Fulfillment of Jesus&#8217; Words by Ed Sumner</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/05/02/j-stuart-russell-on-the-single-fulfillment-of-jesus-words-2/#comment-3420</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Sumner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 20:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2130#comment-3420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, I have found Rev 20 rather SIMPLE. Satan gets bound, the Gospel goes out to the nations during the 1000 years, which is a long period of time and not exactly 1000 years, as some demand. The martyrs of the Neronian persecution (the only persecution which could possibly be meant here, since these martyrs do NOT take the mark of the beast swearing allegiance to Nero/Rome) reign with Christ during the 1000 years. We will know when the 1000 years is completed by: apostasy worldwide in the Church, the rise of Gog (Satan) leading Magog against the people of God and increasing wickedness, including violence and open Sodomy. When the Church is nearly surrounded and defeated, Christ will come and destroy the wicked and raise the living and dead Believers. What&#039;s so hard about that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I have found Rev 20 rather SIMPLE. Satan gets bound, the Gospel goes out to the nations during the 1000 years, which is a long period of time and not exactly 1000 years, as some demand. The martyrs of the Neronian persecution (the only persecution which could possibly be meant here, since these martyrs do NOT take the mark of the beast swearing allegiance to Nero/Rome) reign with Christ during the 1000 years. We will know when the 1000 years is completed by: apostasy worldwide in the Church, the rise of Gog (Satan) leading Magog against the people of God and increasing wickedness, including violence and open Sodomy. When the Church is nearly surrounded and defeated, Christ will come and destroy the wicked and raise the living and dead Believers. What&#8217;s so hard about that?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down by radaractive</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/04/25/leviticus-required-the-temple-in-jerusalem-to-be-torn-down/#comment-3409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[radaractive]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 May 2013 22:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2133#comment-3409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That was well said and timely as well.   It is a sorry state of Christianity that so many &quot;preachers&quot; use end-times Dispensationalism to hype their ministries and fill their coffers.   It is said in my business, Internet Security, that there is &quot;margin in mystery&quot; which means if the customer finds it very complex, we make more money setting it up and selling it than if it was an easy thing to understand and operate.  Revelation becomes an easily-apprehended book when the context is understood.   Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was well said and timely as well.   It is a sorry state of Christianity that so many &#8220;preachers&#8221; use end-times Dispensationalism to hype their ministries and fill their coffers.   It is said in my business, Internet Security, that there is &#8220;margin in mystery&#8221; which means if the customer finds it very complex, we make more money setting it up and selling it than if it was an easy thing to understand and operate.  Revelation becomes an easily-apprehended book when the context is understood.   Thanks!</p>
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		<title>Comment on J. Stuart Russell on the Single Fulfillment of Jesus&#8217; Words by John</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/05/02/j-stuart-russell-on-the-single-fulfillment-of-jesus-words-2/#comment-3405</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 May 2013 13:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2130#comment-3405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;When J. Stuart Russell referred to “the apostles and primitive Christians,” I understand him to mean the immediate disciples of Jesus, the authors of the New Testament, and the very first generation of believers living in the first century. When he says, “No hint is dropped anywhere…,” I understand him to be speaking of the text within the New Testament. This is my interpretation at least.

Yes, I think that is what he means as well. But, my thought is that if they believed it, then that is what they would have taught their followers and the next generation of believers. In that case there should be writings, perhaps numerous writings, suggesting all prophecy has been fulfilled. 

 I  haven&#039;t had a chance to do a lot of my own research, but just from searching on the internet I have found these quotes:

&quot;But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there WILL BE a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare&quot; (Justin Martyr, 100-165 A.D., Dialogue With Trypho, Chapter LXXX.-The Opinion of Justin with Regard to the Reign of a Thousand Years. Several Catholics Reject It). 

&quot;And on this account we believe that THERE WILL BE a resurrection of bodies after the consummation of all things....&quot; (Tatian&#039;s Address To The Greeks, circa 150 A.D., Chapter VI.-Christians&#039; Belief in the Resurrection). 

Polycarp-Pupil of John the Apostle (AD. 70-156) 

CHAPTER II.--AN EXHORTATION TO VIRTUE

&quot;But He who raised Him up from the dead WILL raise up us also&quot; 

PAPIAS-Pupil of John the Apostle (AD. 70-155)

    FRAGMENTS OF PAPIAS FROM THE EXPOSITION OF THE ORACLES OF THE LORD. V.

    &quot;those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven SHALL go there, others SHALL enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others SHALL possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour WILL BE seen, according as they SHALL BE worthy who see Him.&quot;

    VI.

    &quot;there WILL BE a millennium AFTER the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ WILL BE established on this earth&quot; 

There is more here if you want to look at it:
http://www.velocity.net/~edju70/Preterism.htm

My point is that full-preterism would be more convincing if we could find evidence that those closest to the disciples were teaching that the new heavens and earth have arrived.

Do you think this is a fair assumption?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When J. Stuart Russell referred to “the apostles and primitive Christians,” I understand him to mean the immediate disciples of Jesus, the authors of the New Testament, and the very first generation of believers living in the first century. When he says, “No hint is dropped anywhere…,” I understand him to be speaking of the text within the New Testament. This is my interpretation at least.</p>
<p>Yes, I think that is what he means as well. But, my thought is that if they believed it, then that is what they would have taught their followers and the next generation of believers. In that case there should be writings, perhaps numerous writings, suggesting all prophecy has been fulfilled. </p>
<p> I  haven&#8217;t had a chance to do a lot of my own research, but just from searching on the internet I have found these quotes:</p>
<p>&#8220;But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there WILL BE a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare&#8221; (Justin Martyr, 100-165 A.D., Dialogue With Trypho, Chapter LXXX.-The Opinion of Justin with Regard to the Reign of a Thousand Years. Several Catholics Reject It). </p>
<p>&#8220;And on this account we believe that THERE WILL BE a resurrection of bodies after the consummation of all things&#8230;.&#8221; (Tatian&#8217;s Address To The Greeks, circa 150 A.D., Chapter VI.-Christians&#8217; Belief in the Resurrection). </p>
<p>Polycarp-Pupil of John the Apostle (AD. 70-156) </p>
<p>CHAPTER II.&#8211;AN EXHORTATION TO VIRTUE</p>
<p>&#8220;But He who raised Him up from the dead WILL raise up us also&#8221; </p>
<p>PAPIAS-Pupil of John the Apostle (AD. 70-155)</p>
<p>    FRAGMENTS OF PAPIAS FROM THE EXPOSITION OF THE ORACLES OF THE LORD. V.</p>
<p>    &#8220;those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven SHALL go there, others SHALL enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others SHALL possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour WILL BE seen, according as they SHALL BE worthy who see Him.&#8221;</p>
<p>    VI.</p>
<p>    &#8220;there WILL BE a millennium AFTER the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ WILL BE established on this earth&#8221; </p>
<p>There is more here if you want to look at it:<br />
<a href="http://www.velocity.net/~edju70/Preterism.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.velocity.net/~edju70/Preterism.htm</a></p>
<p>My point is that full-preterism would be more convincing if we could find evidence that those closest to the disciples were teaching that the new heavens and earth have arrived.</p>
<p>Do you think this is a fair assumption?</p>
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		<title>Comment on J. Stuart Russell on the Single Fulfillment of Jesus&#8217; Words by Adam Maarschalk</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/05/02/j-stuart-russell-on-the-single-fulfillment-of-jesus-words-2/#comment-3400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Maarschalk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 May 2013 04:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2130#comment-3400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John,

When J. Stuart Russell referred to &quot;the apostles and primitive Christians,&quot; I understand him to mean the immediate disciples of Jesus, the authors of the New Testament, and the very first generation of believers living in the first century. When he says, &quot;No hint is dropped anywhere...,&quot; I understand him to be speaking of the text within the New Testament. This is my interpretation at least.

I&#039;m really not sure who would have been the first commentator (let&#039;s say after 70 AD) to say that they were living in the new heavens and new earth, that all prophecies were fulfilled, or any equivalent statements. I&#039;m not sure which database I could turn to in an attempt to locate the very earliest of statements to that effect, or which search terms in any online database could uncover that type of statement belonging to the first or second century AD. I wish I did better know how to do that.

What I have seen, though, at least by the 2nd - 3rd centuries AD, is quite a bit of disunity when it came to the field of eschatology. There were Chiliasts (premillennialists), and there were those who denounced Chiliasm as heresy. There were those who declared Daniel&#039;s 70 Weeks prophecy to be completely fulfilled, and there were those who said otherwise. There were those who declared the Olivet Discourse to be completely fulfilled, including the promise of Jesus&#039; coming in the clouds with great power and glory, and there were those who said they were still looking for that coming to take place. Some said &quot;the antichrist&quot; and/or many antichrists had already come, and others speculated that a future antichrist was yet to come in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. They were simply all over the place on these things, as far as I&#039;ve been able to see at this point.

Here are some interesting quotes I came across from the period between 90 AD - 150 AD, with some statements being clearer than others as to what the writers meant:

&lt;blockquote&gt;90 AD: Clement of Rome (On the Last Days) &quot;the Books and the Apostles teach that the church is not of the present, but from the beginning. For it was spiritual, as was also our Jesus, and was made manifest at the end of the days in order to save us. (Chap. XIV.-- The Second Epistle to the Corinthians)

130 AD: Barnabus (On the demise of the Temple in the last days) &quot;Moreover I will tell you likewise concerning the temple, how these wretched men being led astray set their hope on the building, and not on their God that made them, as being a house of God. . . . So it cometh to pass; for because they went to war it was pulled down by their enemies. . . . Again, it was revealed how the city and the temple and the people of Israel should be betrayed. For the scripture saith; and it shall be in the last days, that the Lord shall deliver up the sheep of the pasture and the fold and the tower thereof to destruction. And it so happened as the Lord had spoken. &quot; Epistle of Barnabus16:1 ff.)

130 AD: Barnabus (On the fulfillment of prophecy) &quot;Moreover understand this also, my brothers. When ye see that after so many signs and wonders wrought in Israel, even then they were abandoned, let us give heed, lest haply we be found, as the scripture saith, many called but few chosen. . .&quot; (4:14, Epistle of Barnabus)

130 AD: Barnabus (On the fulfillment of prophecy) &quot;Therefore the Son of God came in the flesh to this end, that He might sum up the complete tale of their sins against those who persecuted and slew His prophets.&quot; (5:11, Epistle of Barnabus)

150 AD: Justin Martyr (On the fulfillment of Isaiah 2:4) CHAP. XXXIX.--Direct Predictions By The Spirit. &quot;And when the Spirit of prophecy speaks as predicting things that are to come to pass, He speaks in this way: &quot;For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.&quot; And that it did so come to pass, we can convince you. For from Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of God; and we who formerly used to murder one another do not only now refrain from making war upon our enemies, but also, that we may not lie nor deceive our examiners, willingly die confessing Christ.&quot; (First Apology of Justin Martyr, ch. 39)&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>When J. Stuart Russell referred to &#8220;the apostles and primitive Christians,&#8221; I understand him to mean the immediate disciples of Jesus, the authors of the New Testament, and the very first generation of believers living in the first century. When he says, &#8220;No hint is dropped anywhere&#8230;,&#8221; I understand him to be speaking of the text within the New Testament. This is my interpretation at least.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m really not sure who would have been the first commentator (let&#8217;s say after 70 AD) to say that they were living in the new heavens and new earth, that all prophecies were fulfilled, or any equivalent statements. I&#8217;m not sure which database I could turn to in an attempt to locate the very earliest of statements to that effect, or which search terms in any online database could uncover that type of statement belonging to the first or second century AD. I wish I did better know how to do that.</p>
<p>What I have seen, though, at least by the 2nd &#8211; 3rd centuries AD, is quite a bit of disunity when it came to the field of eschatology. There were Chiliasts (premillennialists), and there were those who denounced Chiliasm as heresy. There were those who declared Daniel&#8217;s 70 Weeks prophecy to be completely fulfilled, and there were those who said otherwise. There were those who declared the Olivet Discourse to be completely fulfilled, including the promise of Jesus&#8217; coming in the clouds with great power and glory, and there were those who said they were still looking for that coming to take place. Some said &#8220;the antichrist&#8221; and/or many antichrists had already come, and others speculated that a future antichrist was yet to come in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. They were simply all over the place on these things, as far as I&#8217;ve been able to see at this point.</p>
<p>Here are some interesting quotes I came across from the period between 90 AD &#8211; 150 AD, with some statements being clearer than others as to what the writers meant:</p>
<blockquote><p>90 AD: Clement of Rome (On the Last Days) &#8220;the Books and the Apostles teach that the church is not of the present, but from the beginning. For it was spiritual, as was also our Jesus, and was made manifest at the end of the days in order to save us. (Chap. XIV.&#8211; The Second Epistle to the Corinthians)</p>
<p>130 AD: Barnabus (On the demise of the Temple in the last days) &#8220;Moreover I will tell you likewise concerning the temple, how these wretched men being led astray set their hope on the building, and not on their God that made them, as being a house of God. . . . So it cometh to pass; for because they went to war it was pulled down by their enemies. . . . Again, it was revealed how the city and the temple and the people of Israel should be betrayed. For the scripture saith; and it shall be in the last days, that the Lord shall deliver up the sheep of the pasture and the fold and the tower thereof to destruction. And it so happened as the Lord had spoken. &#8221; Epistle of Barnabus16:1 ff.)</p>
<p>130 AD: Barnabus (On the fulfillment of prophecy) &#8220;Moreover understand this also, my brothers. When ye see that after so many signs and wonders wrought in Israel, even then they were abandoned, let us give heed, lest haply we be found, as the scripture saith, many called but few chosen. . .&#8221; (4:14, Epistle of Barnabus)</p>
<p>130 AD: Barnabus (On the fulfillment of prophecy) &#8220;Therefore the Son of God came in the flesh to this end, that He might sum up the complete tale of their sins against those who persecuted and slew His prophets.&#8221; (5:11, Epistle of Barnabus)</p>
<p>150 AD: Justin Martyr (On the fulfillment of Isaiah 2:4) CHAP. XXXIX.&#8211;Direct Predictions By The Spirit. &#8220;And when the Spirit of prophecy speaks as predicting things that are to come to pass, He speaks in this way: &#8220;For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.&#8221; And that it did so come to pass, we can convince you. For from Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of God; and we who formerly used to murder one another do not only now refrain from making war upon our enemies, but also, that we may not lie nor deceive our examiners, willingly die confessing Christ.&#8221; (First Apology of Justin Martyr, ch. 39)</p></blockquote>
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		<title>Comment on J. Stuart Russell on the Single Fulfillment of Jesus&#8217; Words by John</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/05/02/j-stuart-russell-on-the-single-fulfillment-of-jesus-words-2/#comment-3381</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 18:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2130#comment-3381</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course, I wouldn’t expect them to actually be called full-preterist. But, if this statement is true:

“There is not a scintilla of evidence that the apostles and primitive Christians had any suspicion of a twofold reference in the predictions of Jesus concerning the end. No hint is anywhere dropped that a primary and a partial fulfillment of His sayings was to take place in that generation, but that the complete and exhaustive fulfillment was reserved for a future and far distant period.”

I would expect to find some ancient commentator to state explicitly that all prophecies are fulfilled and we are now living in the new heavens and earth. To your knowledge, who is the earliest person to clearly make this sort of statement? Do any of the “Apostolic Fathers” say this?

Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, I wouldn’t expect them to actually be called full-preterist. But, if this statement is true:</p>
<p>“There is not a scintilla of evidence that the apostles and primitive Christians had any suspicion of a twofold reference in the predictions of Jesus concerning the end. No hint is anywhere dropped that a primary and a partial fulfillment of His sayings was to take place in that generation, but that the complete and exhaustive fulfillment was reserved for a future and far distant period.”</p>
<p>I would expect to find some ancient commentator to state explicitly that all prophecies are fulfilled and we are now living in the new heavens and earth. To your knowledge, who is the earliest person to clearly make this sort of statement? Do any of the “Apostolic Fathers” say this?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on J. Stuart Russell on the Single Fulfillment of Jesus&#8217; Words by Adam Maarschalk</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/05/02/j-stuart-russell-on-the-single-fulfillment-of-jesus-words-2/#comment-3377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Maarschalk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 17:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2130#comment-3377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi John. I&#039;m not sure what the correct answer is to your question. The term &quot;full-preterist&quot; was coined later in history, as far as I know. And church leaders and scholars have been all over the map throughout church history, when it comes to eschatology. Eusebius (263-339 AD) was a full preterist with regard to Matthew 24, but I haven&#039;t read enough of his material to know how close he was to being a full preterist with regard to all Biblical prophecy. Here&#039;s a summary quote from him on Matthew 24:



&lt;blockquote&gt;“And when those that believed in Christ had come thither [out] from Jerusalem [in obedience to Matthew 24:15-16], then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men (Proof of the Gospel, Book III, Ch. 5)… [When] the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, &lt;b&gt;surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, the Christ of God, has come, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in each instance I have treated to have been clearly fulfilled&lt;/b&gt;” (Proof of the Gospel, Book VIII).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John. I&#8217;m not sure what the correct answer is to your question. The term &#8220;full-preterist&#8221; was coined later in history, as far as I know. And church leaders and scholars have been all over the map throughout church history, when it comes to eschatology. Eusebius (263-339 AD) was a full preterist with regard to Matthew 24, but I haven&#8217;t read enough of his material to know how close he was to being a full preterist with regard to all Biblical prophecy. Here&#8217;s a summary quote from him on Matthew 24:</p>
<blockquote><p>“And when those that believed in Christ had come thither [out] from Jerusalem [in obedience to Matthew 24:15-16], then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men (Proof of the Gospel, Book III, Ch. 5)… [When] the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, <b>surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, the Christ of God, has come, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in each instance I have treated to have been clearly fulfilled</b>” (Proof of the Gospel, Book VIII).</p></blockquote>
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		<title>Comment on J. Stuart Russell on the Single Fulfillment of Jesus&#8217; Words by Adam Maarschalk</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/05/02/j-stuart-russell-on-the-single-fulfillment-of-jesus-words-2/#comment-3376</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Maarschalk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 17:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2130#comment-3376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ed, thanks for your comment. After I became a partial preterist in 2009, for quite a while I believed the same as you do about Revelation 20 showing a future fiery coming. I still find Revelation 20 to be the most difficult chapter to understand, let alone explain, but I no longer believe that this fiery coming is future. Yes, to believe that way would suggest three major comings of the Lord, not two. I couldn&#039;t (and can&#039;t) find any indication in the New Testament that Jesus or the apostles spoke of one coming that was soon to take place, and another coming that was very far off.

I disagree that there has been no general resurrection of the dead. Paul declared in Acts 24:15 that there was &quot;about to be&quot; a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. I would ask you to consider the following argument by Vernon C. Klingman III in comparing Daniel 12 and Matthew 24. I believe he does a good job articulating why Daniel 12 (which predicts the resurrection) can&#039;t be future, especially if a person believes that Matthew 24:1-34 has been fulfilled:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Perhaps the clearest Biblical preclusion of the partial preterist view rests in a comparison between Christ&#039;s teaching in the Olivet Discourse and Daniel 12. In these passages, we find both Jesus and Daniel foretelling of the time of the end (Dan. 12:4; Mat. 24:3), the great tribulation (Dan. 12:1; Mat. 24:21), the abomination of desolation (Dan. 12:1; Mat. 24:15), and the gathering of the elect (Dan. 12:2-3; Mat. 24:31). These parallels demonstrate that Jesus and Daniel were speaking of the same time and events. In fact, Jesus stated directly that He was discussing the things that Daniel had predicted (Mat. 24:15).

Now, Jesus taught that all these things, along with His coming in glory and the destruction of the temple, would occur before His generation would pass away (Mat. 24:1-34), and the partial preterist believes this was fulfilled. However, Daniel recorded that all these things, along with the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked, would occur by the time the power of the Jews would be shattered (Dan. 12:2-7). Clearly, both of these prophecies were delimited by the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. This means that all these things, including the coming of Christ to resurrect the righteous and the wicked, would occur by this time.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, thanks for your comment. After I became a partial preterist in 2009, for quite a while I believed the same as you do about Revelation 20 showing a future fiery coming. I still find Revelation 20 to be the most difficult chapter to understand, let alone explain, but I no longer believe that this fiery coming is future. Yes, to believe that way would suggest three major comings of the Lord, not two. I couldn&#8217;t (and can&#8217;t) find any indication in the New Testament that Jesus or the apostles spoke of one coming that was soon to take place, and another coming that was very far off.</p>
<p>I disagree that there has been no general resurrection of the dead. Paul declared in Acts 24:15 that there was &#8220;about to be&#8221; a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. I would ask you to consider the following argument by Vernon C. Klingman III in comparing Daniel 12 and Matthew 24. I believe he does a good job articulating why Daniel 12 (which predicts the resurrection) can&#8217;t be future, especially if a person believes that Matthew 24:1-34 has been fulfilled:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Perhaps the clearest Biblical preclusion of the partial preterist view rests in a comparison between Christ&#8217;s teaching in the Olivet Discourse and Daniel 12. In these passages, we find both Jesus and Daniel foretelling of the time of the end (Dan. 12:4; Mat. 24:3), the great tribulation (Dan. 12:1; Mat. 24:21), the abomination of desolation (Dan. 12:1; Mat. 24:15), and the gathering of the elect (Dan. 12:2-3; Mat. 24:31). These parallels demonstrate that Jesus and Daniel were speaking of the same time and events. In fact, Jesus stated directly that He was discussing the things that Daniel had predicted (Mat. 24:15).</p>
<p>Now, Jesus taught that all these things, along with His coming in glory and the destruction of the temple, would occur before His generation would pass away (Mat. 24:1-34), and the partial preterist believes this was fulfilled. However, Daniel recorded that all these things, along with the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked, would occur by the time the power of the Jews would be shattered (Dan. 12:2-7). Clearly, both of these prophecies were delimited by the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. This means that all these things, including the coming of Christ to resurrect the righteous and the wicked, would occur by this time.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>Comment on J. Stuart Russell on the Single Fulfillment of Jesus&#8217; Words by John</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/05/02/j-stuart-russell-on-the-single-fulfillment-of-jesus-words-2/#comment-3362</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 12:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2130#comment-3362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who was the first full-preterist commentator?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who was the first full-preterist commentator?</p>
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		<title>Comment on J. Stuart Russell on the Single Fulfillment of Jesus&#8217; Words by Ed Sumner</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/05/02/j-stuart-russell-on-the-single-fulfillment-of-jesus-words-2/#comment-3352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Sumner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 00:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2130#comment-3352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a partial preterist. I still believe in a fiery coming (Rev 20) at the end of the &#039;thousand years&#039;. So then, are there three comings? I KNOW the pre-mil folks are dead wrong, but the full preterists are as well, because there has been no general resurrection of the dead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a partial preterist. I still believe in a fiery coming (Rev 20) at the end of the &#8216;thousand years&#8217;. So then, are there three comings? I KNOW the pre-mil folks are dead wrong, but the full preterists are as well, because there has been no general resurrection of the dead.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down by Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down &#124; Overflowing Wine</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/04/25/leviticus-required-the-temple-in-jerusalem-to-be-torn-down/#comment-3349</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down &#124; Overflowing Wine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 May 2013 21:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2133#comment-3349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Reblogged from Pursuing Truth (Twin Cities): [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Reblogged from Pursuing Truth (Twin Cities): [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down by Gianna Rio</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/04/25/leviticus-required-the-temple-in-jerusalem-to-be-torn-down/#comment-3204</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gianna Rio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2133#comment-3204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[and it has such long term implications too...everywhere the Lord  left became a desolation, a haunt of jackals...look around :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and it has such long term implications too&#8230;everywhere the Lord  left became a desolation, a haunt of jackals&#8230;look around <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down by Adam Maarschalk</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/04/25/leviticus-required-the-temple-in-jerusalem-to-be-torn-down/#comment-3197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Maarschalk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Apr 2013 19:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2133#comment-3197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Gianna. I&#039;m glad this post ministered to you. I&#039;m taking a look at your blog as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Gianna. I&#8217;m glad this post ministered to you. I&#8217;m taking a look at your blog as well.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down by Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down &#124; up from the desert...</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/04/25/leviticus-required-the-temple-in-jerusalem-to-be-torn-down/#comment-3196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down &#124; up from the desert...]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2133#comment-3196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Reblogged from Pursuing Truth (Twin Cities): [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Reblogged from Pursuing Truth (Twin Cities): [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Leviticus Required the Temple in Jerusalem to be Torn Down by Gianna Rio</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/04/25/leviticus-required-the-temple-in-jerusalem-to-be-torn-down/#comment-3195</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gianna Rio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2133#comment-3195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reblogged this on &lt;a href=&quot;http://giario.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/leviticus-required-the-temple-in-jerusalem-to-be-torn-down/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;up from the desert...&lt;/a&gt; and commented: 
loved this...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reblogged this on <a href="http://giario.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/leviticus-required-the-temple-in-jerusalem-to-be-torn-down/" rel="nofollow">up from the desert&#8230;</a> and commented:<br />
loved this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why I Abandoned Replacement Theology by Onesimus</title>
		<link>http://kloposmasm.com/2013/02/13/why-i-abandoned-replacement-theology/#comment-3186</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Onesimus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 05:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kloposmasm.com/?p=2082#comment-3186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe the problem you have with understanding is that you were taught the NT without being given understanding of its background in the &quot;Old Testament&quot;. And then you were taught to project preconceptions back into the OT.

You need to go back to read the OT free of your preconceptions and attempted interpretations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the problem you have with understanding is that you were taught the NT without being given understanding of its background in the &#8220;Old Testament&#8221;. And then you were taught to project preconceptions back into the OT.</p>
<p>You need to go back to read the OT free of your preconceptions and attempted interpretations.</p>
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